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12 Aug 2022 02:20:32
Okay, let's take a stab at this:
NETS/ CELTICS/ KNICKS/ JAZZ:
Nets receive: J. Brown, O. Toppin, M. Conley, D. White, '24 and '26 firsts from Celtics
Celtics receive: KD
Knicks receive: Mitchell
Jazz receive: Simmons, Randle, '23 firsts via Mavs and Wizards
Alright. tear it apart!
1.) 12 Aug 2022 10:24:13
This should be two separate trades, because none if Utah's return comes from Boston.
2.) 12 Aug 2022 14:50:30
It nets out to Brown, White and 2 1sts for KD. Nets won't accept that. Knicks are getting Mitchell for Toppin, Randle and 2 1sts. I don't think the Jazz accept that.
It's really hard to come up with a believable trade here, because no matter what happens in the end it's probably going to be a surprise that nobody would believe if we posted it here. Between KD trying to tank his trade value to push Tsai into a bad trade, Tsai indicating he's ready to play Daryl Morey level chicken, and Simmons value so much in flux due to surgery and mental health questions there's a lot of egos to smooth to get anything done.
The Gobert trade has really messed with the market. Nets will look bad if they trade Durant for less, but the market seems to be out of players willing to overpay.
My guess is Durant ends up in New Orleans. They can put together a compelling package, and at this point I don't think the Nets care about what Durant wants. They may prefer to send him somewhere he doesn't want to be out of spite.
3.) 13 Aug 2022 15:30:55
Am I missing something? Why does it matter that none of Utah's assets come from Boston? Multi team deals like that happen all the time (Westbrook to the Lakers is probably the biggest recent one) . If there's some provision I don't know about, throw in a second rounder from the Celtics to the Jazz.
Please explain how it nets out to Brown, White and 2 firsts for KD and Mitchell for Toppin, Randle and 2 firsts. not really understanding what you're getting at.
The Jazz receiving Simmons should offset the need for extra firsts, but if so, throw in another from the Knicks. Also throw in another first to the Nets from the Celtics.
The players going back to Utah in the Gobert trade weren't exactly earth-shattering, which is probably why they had to include so many picks. If any of the returning players are higher end (Brown, possibly Simmons depending on who you ask), it stands to reason that it should offset the number of picks needed to accomplish a deal.
4.) 13 Aug 2022 22:35:33
Jazz want a king's ransom & this doesn't come close. It's actually not salvageable.
11 Jul 2022 23:23:15
Masai and Marks seen chatting at Summer League in Vegas.
Raptors/ Nets
Nets get: Svi Mykhailiuk
Raptors get: future second round pick.
02 Jul 2022 22:39:21
Here's my (what I'm assuming will be unpopular) opinion on Durant and the Raptors, as unlikely as that even seems:
I would rather gamble on the potential of the next 10+ years of Scottie, Precious, OG, et al than mortgage the future for a couple years of Durant.
1. He's a top five player in the league and one of the best of all time. But he's also 34, making 44mil a year with a very recent history of serious injury.
2. Everyone keeps saying "but you get 4 years of KD". I don't buy it. Maybe a couple productive years, then he'll want out again, regardless of where he ends up. Can't predict the future, but recent history should give us pause.
3. The Raptors aren't built to win now. They have at least a few more developmental years in them before they should be even considering a big trade to put them over the top. When they traded for Kawhi, they were fresh off a string of 55+ win seasons and basically couldn't get past LeBron. Kawhi and a few lucky bounces put them over the top.
4. Considering what they would have to give up to acquire him, what would be left to surround him with? They might draw a few over the hill vets looking to ring chase on minimum deals but then what? The Lakers mortgaged the future to get AD. It got them a title, but where are they now? Floundering with no assets to work with.
5. The Warriors are a perfect example of what can happen when you draft and develop well, and strike gold a time or two. I would rather take my chances on developing what we have and adding the right pieces at the right time down the road. Look at the Celtics as another recent example. I'm not saying with certainty that Scottie, Precious, OG, etc. are or will ever be at that level, but not a single person can say that they knew for a fact the Warriors would be 4 rings deep after drafting Curry, Klay, and Green.
6. It took KD being flanked by a few future hall of famers to win a title. That's not a knock on him, just proof of how hard it is to win, even with a superstar. He couldn't do it with OKC, and the Nets were swept in the first round by the Celtics, who built that team through the draft and some savvy, timely moves.
7. The Suns make sense. The Heat make sense (but seem the most unlikely) . Those teams are built to win now, and trying to win a title now, and could still surround KD with enough talent to win now without completely gutting their rosters.
Ok, I'm ready for all the backlash lol.
1.) 03 Jul 2022 00:19:10
Agree 100%. I didn't read your whole post but it's pretty much how I feel as a Cav fan. I'd rather roll with what we have than mortgage our future for a couple of years of KD.
Marks will try to take advantage of a desperate team & fleece them. I hope it's not us.
2.) 03 Jul 2022 00:45:28
I'm torn. in some ways i've been thinking back to the heady days of the 4 bounces, but then I also think back on the Nets for the past 3 years. let's face it, Masai would not have quite as good a reputation if the Kawhi shot bounced out and the Sixers took it in OT. this would be an even bigger risk in my mind. I've been encouraged watching the 6'9 experiment begin to flourish and I'm more than happy as a fan if they keep on the same track. but if KD comes and brings another chip I'm all in for that too!
3.) 03 Jul 2022 08:24:11
Raptors didn’t win until they took a risk.
4.) 03 Jul 2022 15:08:19
@windrapsfan: for me it would depend entirely on the package. I've seen some packages out there saying three of their core plus four or five picks, plus pick swaps, which to me would be a no. Scottie would be a no. My concern would be what happens after a couple years of KD if you have to decimate your roster to get him. MAYBE you win a chip in one of those years, then he declines, retires, or leaves, and you're rebuilding for the next ten years without many assets to work with. If you stay patient and let this crew develop for a couple more years, then add a lesser star to the mix, your window could potentially be much larger without having to give up so much. I trust Masai and Webster though.
@NBA16: Like I said in the third point, at the time they traded for Kawhi, they were coming off multiple 55+ win seasons, with a solid core and a ton of depth. The price then was also much less than what everyone is proposing now to get Durant. Kawhi was also on the last year of his contract, not starting a 4 year extension. I would also argue that Gasol was as much of a factor in pushing them over the top, which shows you just how deep they were at the time. So you're right in saying they didn't win until they took a risk, but the circumstances aren't even close to the same.
30 Jun 2022 19:34:00
Heat and Suns reportedly on Durant's "list".
Heat would have to involve a third team to make anything work.
Assuming they'd want to move forward with a Bam, Butler, Durant big 3.
Picks are complicated because of protections and possible conveyance due to previous deals.
Lowry won't want to go to a rebuilding Nets team, so would have to either be redirected somewhere else or bought out.
Otherwise they have a lot of good young talent but the contracts wouldn't add up.
Probably at least looking at some combo of Herro, Robinson, Vincent, Strus, Martin, plus whatever picks they can actually deal. Doesn't seem like the Nets would bite unless a third team is involved, and the money doesn't work anyway unless they include Lowry.
1.) 30 Jun 2022 19:41:15
I don’t think Miami is an option if Bam isn’t included.
2.) 30 Jun 2022 20:08:11
That's what I'm thinking. They don't have enough to give up without including Bam or Butler, but at that point does it make sense for them?
3.) 30 Jun 2022 21:18:17
Maybe not. That’s why I don’t think he ends up in Miami.
4.) 30 Jun 2022 22:27:30
Miami can't trade Bam, due to the Rose Rule. Miami has some nice pieces, but they don't have "The" piece that can be a number 1 to offer.
Unlike Boston, who is also on the list.
With Jaylen Brown.
23 Jun 2022 19:48:09
Michael Grange on Twitter:
"Pretty good pre-draft workout for Raptors today at OVO: Pascal Siakam; OG Anunoby and Scottie Barnes. "
I think we can put all those outside rumors to rest.
1.) 23 Jun 2022 20:16:08
One workout doesn’t change trade rumors. Players have been traded mid game before.
2.) 24 Jun 2022 01:54:17
guys who want out don't show for off season workouts. or teammates charity softball games for that matter.
3.) 24 Jun 2022 06:12:25
Robert Covington did.
Also Jared Dudley was trade right after a summer practice while finding out in the locker room.
Can definitely happen if the offer is good.
jdc.cal's banter posts with other poster's replies to jdc.cal's banter posts
03 Feb 2023 00:34:52
Just for fun. Wild NBA All Star Proposal:
- Expand from 24 to 36 players
- Broken down into 4 teams of 9
- Top 4 in fan voting captain the teams
- Remaining 32 players chosen by coaches/ gms (can't vote for anyone from your own team)
- Draft style like current system to select teams
- Tournament style games. 12-15 minutes each with predetermined sub intervals so all 9 play.
- DAY 1: Each team plays each other team once in a round robin (so basically like playing 3 quarters of a full game) .
- After round robin, top team plays bottom team, middle two teams play in first "playoff" round.
- DAY 2: Winners of the first playoff round play in the final - say 2, 12-15 quarters.
- involves more players, fewer "snubs", possibly with fewer teams left out - better for fans.
- shorter "games" equal faster pace with more at stake, better competition
- Still essentially works out to the same amount of playing time so you're not really asking any more out of the players, just a different, more dynamic format.
1.) 03 Feb 2023 03:48:12
Players/ coaches/ Front Offices will not want their All-Stars playing on back-2-back for games that do not count.
Although, I am for expanding the Roster to 15 per team. I just think it would be very hard to get all of them minutes on the court. Evenly dispersed, it would be only 16 minutes of game time per player.
2.) 03 Feb 2023 22:00:15
These would be short, low intensity games with regular sub intervals (meant to spread out the minutes as evenly as possible), not full throttle regular season games. So you can't really call it a back to back. Half of the players wouldn't even play on the second day. Between the two days you're likely looking at less that a full "real" game's worth of minutes for any given player.
11 Aug 2022 15:06:07
I feel like I'm seeing more articles and reports about all these guys "going off" in pro-am games this summer. Kuzma "goes off" for 67, Flynn "goes off" for 52 and 70-whatever. James "erupts" for 50. who cares? It's a pickup game.
Why is this a thing now? Slow news month?
1.) 11 Aug 2022 19:54:37
guys need their hype? and yes, with only baseball being played, things are very, very slow sports-wise in the US.
22 Jul 2022 16:47:15
Of all the remaining free agents, who are you the most surprised hasn't found a home yet?
At a quick glance it seems like most of them are vets probably waiting for the dust to settle before picking a contender to ring-chase with.
1.) 22 Jul 2022 17:09:46
Collin Sexton?
2.) 22 Jul 2022 17:53:37
Yeah I thought he would have been locked up sooner. Wonder what the hold up is.
3.) 22 Jul 2022 20:42:02
The only thing I can think is that he is not recovering for his knee surgery as well as he would like.
I find it interesting that Cleveland resigned Rubio before Sexton.
4.) 22 Jul 2022 22:03:21
Schroeder? Whiteside? Surely someone has to make an offer to Udonis Haslem, no?
5.) 24 Jul 2022 20:35:28
Whiteside to me falls into the "waiting and assessing contenders" category. I wouldn't be surprised if Haslem just retires and takes a front office or coaching job with the Heat or whoever their G League affiliate is. Sioux Falls?
04 Jul 2022 19:16:28
"Canada is one of my favorite cities to hang out in" - Antoine Walker on Durant's fit with the Raptors.
1.) 04 Jul 2022 20:39:47
I do have to admit that I did have "a good time" when I visited Toronto in my youth.
2.) 04 Jul 2022 21:00:05
Oh man, I went to Toronto once when I was about 20, what a blur.
3.) 05 Jul 2022 04:29:13
Umm. Canada is not a city. And Yonge St is crazy fun.
4.) 05 Jul 2022 05:57:17
And yet this suppose to lead to quality basketball being played.
5.) 05 Jul 2022 22:35:57
@DAC813 bingo. I guess everyone else missed that too.
30 Jun 2022 05:19:42
Can someone explain to me why the Spurs dealt Murray? 25 year old all star who nearly averaged a triple double, led the league in steals, and is "only" making 15 mil a year over the next 2.
What am I missing?
1.) 30 Jun 2022 07:03:40
Probably tanking next season for a big move?
2.) 30 Jun 2022 07:06:07
However, ESPN’s Brian Windhorst reported that the Spurs decided to part ways with Murray because it was inevitable that they’d lose the 25-year-old. “He and his agent, Rich Paul, made it known that he was not going to extend his contract with the Spurs this summer, ” Windhorst said on The Hoop Collective podcast.
3.) 30 Jun 2022 19:36:12
I guess if they were hamstringed by the player there's not a lot they can do. But is there anyone currently on their roster who projects to be "next in line"? They're not exactly a free agent hotbed, so they better hope some of these picks pan out.
13 Aug 2022 15:30:55
Am I missing something? Why does it matter that none of Utah's assets come from Boston? Multi team deals like that happen all the time (Westbrook to the Lakers is probably the biggest recent one) . If there's some provision I don't know about, throw in a second rounder from the Celtics to the Jazz.
Please explain how it nets out to Brown, White and 2 firsts for KD and Mitchell for Toppin, Randle and 2 firsts. not really understanding what you're getting at.
The Jazz receiving Simmons should offset the need for extra firsts, but if so, throw in another from the Knicks. Also throw in another first to the Nets from the Celtics.
The players going back to Utah in the Gobert trade weren't exactly earth-shattering, which is probably why they had to include so many picks. If any of the returning players are higher end (Brown, possibly Simmons depending on who you ask), it stands to reason that it should offset the number of picks needed to accomplish a deal.
10 Aug 2022 16:28:32
A trade like this would signal a rebuild, which they're nowhere close to. '21/ '22 was the "show me" season. If they hadn't drafted Barnes, if Barnes/ Achiuwa had been complete busts, or if Siakam regressed or didn't return to All NBA form, then I could see them considering a complete tear down. Like @windrapsfan said, Siakam only gets moved in a package for a top 10 superstar.
10 Aug 2022 16:23:05
Has Irving ever had a good relationship with any front office or coaching staff? When does it end? Will there ever be a situation that actually makes him happy?
02 Aug 2022 22:33:06
If they're not going to void deals because of tampering, what about an unpaid suspension for the player (s) involved along with loss of picks for the team? Like multiple firsts. Or give the team some kind of major spending handicap in the next offseason. Reduce their cap or take away bird rights or something. Just spitballing. Tampering is going to keep happening unless they start doing more than taking away a late first or second rounder. It has to be something major enough to spook teams and agents.
12 Jul 2022 19:04:03
If I'm the Raptors, I would love to have Bam. But it's the same problem that all of these other trade proposals don't address. If they give up OG and an improving Achiuwa (who has improved drastically from deep) and the return is a non-shooter, they're going from one of the worst shooting teams to probably THE worst. Can't plug one hole by creating an even bigger one elsewhere. Unless you're relying on whoever is left to take MAJOR steps in the shooting department.
03 Feb 2023 22:00:15
These would be short, low intensity games with regular sub intervals (meant to spread out the minutes as evenly as possible), not full throttle regular season games. So you can't really call it a back to back. Half of the players wouldn't even play on the second day. Between the two days you're likely looking at less that a full "real" game's worth of minutes for any given player.
10 Aug 2022 16:59:59
I'm not sure there's a trade to be made here TBH.
To make salaries work they would have to send Siakam straight up, or 2 of FVV, GTJ, OG (with another small contract coming back with SGA), or FVV and a bunch of smaller filler.
Siakam is only getting moved in a package for a top ten superstar, if at all.
I'm not sure they would be interested in FVV and filler.
GTJ and OG are probably the best fits for the Thunder (age, contracts, talent/ skill)
There's a lot to factor in outside of the stat sheet. SGA has put up good numbers on some bad teams, has played 70/ 35/ 56 games over the last few seasons, and his shooting numbers took a pretty big dip last year. Also, no all star or all nba teams. He ranked 11th in all star voting for guards last year.
GTJ and OG haven't seen many more games over the same span, their shooting numbers have been better, but also no all star or all nba teams. Probably not even close tbh.
SGA doesn't seem to fit the mould of what the Raptors are trying to do, so giving up two really good defenders and shooters for a PG when they've already got Fred doesn't seem like their style. I think they're more likely to slot Barnes into more PG minutes than trade for one.
03 Aug 2022 20:19:03
I think the biggest thing to consider with that is that teams would still be tampering, they'd just be doing it during the playoffs, which would be worse.
26 Jul 2022 16:43:17
I think you have to factor in mental toughness pretty heavily as well, which makes me think he'd be better off in a "smaller" market like Sac, Indiana, Portland, OKC, Minnesota, Utah, etc, just to name a few examples.
Next you have to consider which of those teams has the assets to trade for him, along with who would have the personnel left over after a trade to best insulate his weaknesses, and finally which of those teams has assets that actually interest the Nets.
Utah has the draft capital after dealing Gobert. Maybe Simmons heads there as part of a larger Mitchell trade (if it happens, to the Knicks for example) .
Spurs? Grizzlies? Hornets?
24 Jul 2022 20:35:28
Whiteside to me falls into the "waiting and assessing contenders" category. I wouldn't be surprised if Haslem just retires and takes a front office or coaching job with the Heat or whoever their G League affiliate is. Sioux Falls?