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29 Jul 2020 17:42:04
The Best Gordon Trade That I Can See

Orl: gordon + pick #16 (going to pass Brooklyn for 7th seed) + #45.

Char: rozier + pick #8 (assuming Chalotte does not get Top 4 in the lottery)

Magic draft Okoro @#8.


1.) 29 Jul 2020 18:09:11
Why would Charlotte do this? Gordon might be enough to move up 8 spots in the draft, but not if Charlotte has to include Rozier. Plus, Charlotte has PJ Washington to play PF.

2.) 29 Jul 2020 19:40:03
I think Charlotte has "buyers remorse" on Rozier. If so, which teams would "value" a "starting" PG? Orlando is about the only one (Knicks? ) .

Because of the depth of PG prospects in this draft, Charlotte can easily get a "good" PG @ #16 (Kira Lewis? ) to platoon with Graham. Charlotte has no PF depth behind Washington so those two can compete for starters minutes. Use 2 seconds on C and SG depth. Then lead into Free Agency as one of the only teams with cap space.

3.) 29 Jul 2020 20:38:12
Why would Charlotte have buyers remorse on a player averaging 18 ppg and shooting over 40% from 3.

Gordon and Rozier are comparable players, so Orlando has to give up up something more to move up 8 spots in the draft.

4.) 29 Jul 2020 21:46:20
Charlotte should have buyers remorse on Rozier. He’s a good 3 point shooter, but overall a very inefficient scorer that doesn’t do much else and plays the deepest position in the league. He’s bottom 10 of the starting PGs in the NBA.

That said, Gordon isn’t a lot better. He’s an inefficient forward that fits awkwardly at either position.

5.) 29 Jul 2020 22:26:14
Lets see. 18.0 pts, 4.4 asts per game versus 18.2 pts, 7.5 asts per game. Yea, going to go with Graham over Rozier and reinvest Rozier's salary into a position that the team lacks depth (big men) .

Now Charlotte is not going to get full value because the demand for a "starting" PG is relatively low in the NBA because a majority of teams believe they already have one.

Do you expect Charlotte to "reach" for a big in a draft that is seriously short on big man talent?

6.) 30 Jul 2020 02:51:52
charlotte's best player is pf. play in the same position. there is not that much difference between gordon and rozier to give 8. pick.

7.) 30 Jul 2020 04:33:50
I partially take it back. I thought Rozier signed for 4 years and a lot closer to max. His contract isn’t bad. He’s still not someone I’d want starting on my team, but he’s a good role player on an ok contract.



15 Jul 2020 16:59:17
Kings (and Bogdanovich) agree to S&t to Orlando for anyone of the following:

A. Gordon + Bamba

B. Gordon + pick #17

C. Fournier + Bamba + pick #17.

Kings can toss in a second rounder as well if Orlando is on the fence about making a deal.


1.) 15 Jul 2020 19:36:01
Not unbelievable, but that feels a little steep for Bogdanovich. Statistically he and Fournier are close. He is a bit younger, but not enough to throw in Bamba and a mid-first rounder. Not to mention, he’s likely to make more than Fournier on a new deal? Maybe Gordon and a 2021 second rounder.

2.) 15 Jul 2020 21:24:47
Gordon + 2nd is not enough for Kings not to match a 3yr/ 40 mil offer.

Actually can be $5 mil less (per year) than Orlando sends to the Kings. Not many teams will have cap space to sign Bogdanovich (so it will probably be a S&T to get him from Kings)

3.) 15 Jul 2020 22:51:47
Too much for Bogdanovic. Gordon straight up for Bogdanovic would be about right. I would probably choose Gordon, but it would be close.

4.) 16 Jul 2020 03:58:05
In Kings POV, shooting is the most sought after talent so Bogi>Gordon. Not going to take a "straight up" offer.



13 Jul 2020 21:22:23
Going to throw this idea out there. let's say Ingram wants to return to Cali and not resign with NO.

NO max S&T Ingram

GSW trade Wiggins + unprotected GSW 2021 first.


1.) 13 Jul 2020 21:34:03
To take Wiggins, i'd say NO will want the 1st overall pick or Minny pick. But Ingram would fit in pretty good with the Warriors.

2.) 13 Jul 2020 22:11:12
Swap #1 and #13?

3.) 14 Jul 2020 00:29:53
Why would New Orleans deal Ingram. He’s a 23 year old allstar in the western conference that plays the most important position in basketball and can do a little of everything.

4.) 14 Jul 2020 01:32:32
No Pelicans are set team who just need to play together and get healthy. I would not move ingram.

5.) 14 Jul 2020 12:38:45
Fine Ingram takes the QO and leaves the following year when a ton of teams may have cap space.



13 Jul 2020 02:27:00
Indy trades Oladipo
Sac trades Bogdanovich (S&T at Oladipo's salary) +2021 lottery protected first (if not conveyed, then 2 seconds) .

Bogdanovich is looking for a starting position and will beat out Lamb for that spot.


1.) 13 Jul 2020 05:49:29
Bogdanovich does not get you Oladipo. Not even close.

2.) 13 Jul 2020 08:13:05
Can you make it top-10 protected or a swap option if it falls in the lottery?

3.) 13 Jul 2020 09:08:57
Not enough for Dipo, add another 1st maybe.

4.) 13 Jul 2020 12:22:50
Kings (and no one else really) is going to give Indy much for a player coming off a major injury with only one-year left on his contract. For example, how much would you trade for DMC on a one-year deal?

Indy can keep him, play him and see what they can get at the trade deadline. But again it won't be much since he will be a 3 month rental.

5.) 13 Jul 2020 13:54:38
I don't think Bogdanovic is that much of a downgrade over Oladipo. He would fit really great in Indy.
I really like Dipo, but i'm not sure we should give him a max contract.

I think it's funny, people forget the bigger picture.
what does Indy want for Dipo: A Good (young) shootingguard to replace him or a powerforward who can play with Sabonis (spread the floor and play defense) and an asset.

6.) 13 Jul 2020 17:07:15
If I didn't have to S&T Bogdanovich, I would have added Bjelica to the deal to be that stretch 4.



19 Jun 2020 19:00:13
Golden State trades Wiggins

Philly trades Horford + 2021 first draft swap.


1.) 19 Jun 2020 21:43:34
value seems there. Both better fits.

2.) 19 Jun 2020 22:44:06
Good trade. I think Horford will be worth it for championship seeking Warriors while Wiggins might mesh well with Embiid.

3.) 19 Jun 2020 23:18:38
I dunno - if you have Simmons, Wiggins, and Embiid on the court at the same time, the other two had better be great shooters. Also Horford / Green both need some of the offense to go through them to be most effective. Having Draymond play off the ball more often isn't great.

4.) 20 Jun 2020 04:01:46
Not a good trade. Wiggins has a bad contract but he is younger and healtier than Horford. Gsw don't need bigs on a huge contract. They need a big on a small contract.




Fredman's talk posts with other poster's replies to Fredman's talk posts


01 Aug 2020 17:07:57
So with the Kings losing to San Antonio in the first game back, I have decided that the Kings go into tank mode and have moved on to the Lottery/ Draft.

Shizzee, suppose Kings move up to #4 and Knicks drop back to #7. If Ball is still on the board, what package.


1.) 01 Aug 2020 18:38:19
M Robinson :-p.

2.) 01 Aug 2020 18:39:56
I think #7+ dallas pick 2023+ 2rnd pick 2021 is fair.

Who would you take with that pick?

3.) 01 Aug 2020 19:36:08
Gasupo. Not even close to what I am looking for.

Try #7+#25+2021 first round draft swap.

4.) 01 Aug 2020 20:25:44
I think the most you could get it 7 and two late firsts (clippers and Dallas maybe? Both Dallas picks? ) . The Knicks would be really stupid to include a top 10 pick swap next year to move up 3 spots.

5.) 01 Aug 2020 22:14:53
I am good with #7+#25+Dallas2021First.

6.) 01 Aug 2020 22:22:11
Who would you draft with 7th pick?

7.) 01 Aug 2020 22:26:54
You know what? On second thought, I am not good with that. Dallas gave up #3 for #5 and next years #10 (had a top 5 protection) . Kings will be giving up an additional slot at a slightly lower point in the draft. Seems pretty similar. So is #5 for #7 and 2021 first (top 5 protected) really that unreasonable? Or would the Knicks prefer to give up the #25 pick in order to have the Kings 2021 first after the swap?

8.) 01 Aug 2020 22:31:43
Gasupo, probably someone in the Okoro/ Vassell/ Neismith group. Not that big on the guy from Isreal.

Could see another trade down from #7 as well. Why do I see San Antonio interested in Okoro (Klaw 2.0?)?

9.) 01 Aug 2020 23:16:09
I would draft vassell or okoro too.

You can't compare the doncic trade with this draft. neither Ball, Edwards or wiseman have doncic value .

I would take the dallas 2023 pick, so you have time to use that asset. The clipper pick has no value in this weak draft. I prefere a future second round over that pick.

10.) 02 Aug 2020 00:01:48
Most of you are acting as if 4 is way more valuable than 7. In this, it’s not. A fair trade would be 7, 25, and a 2021 second. It will likely be a high second. The Knicks get their guy and the kings are probably happier than whoever they get at 7 than Lamelo.

11.) 02 Aug 2020 04:33:07
The draft is thought to have a top 4 or 5 players with a drop off after that. In that case, 4 does have quite a bit more value than 7. And if you’re trading up, you’re admitting to really wanting one of those top 4-5 guys.

I didn’t think about the Dallas Atlanta trade. You’re right Fred, the value is probably a future Knicks pick to make that jump.

12.) 02 Aug 2020 06:04:03
Kings would probably pass on that package, Ethan. #25 is not enough by far.

13.) 02 Aug 2020 06:26:16
Gasupo. Ball, Edwards or Wiseman may not have Doncic value, but anyone at #7 doesn't have Trae Young value either. Most scouts are saying that there are 4 Tier 1 talents in this draft (probably Tier 2 in other drafts) . So there is a "drop" in value after #4. And I seriously doubt Ball last past Detroit at what would be @#6.

Now, personally I want the Clippers first in order to draft Aleksej Pokusevski ahead of Boston trying to stash him. Thus why I am offering the 2021 draft swap instead of just taking New York's 2021 protected pick.

14.) 02 Aug 2020 18:22:45
Did Doncic even have “Doncic value” at the time of that trade? Sure, Dallas loved him, but he went third after Ayton and Bagley. It’s not like he was Anthony Davis as the obvious #1 pick and a clearcut superstar.

I think Ball, Edwards, and Wiseman are very compatible to Doncic. Many think those 3 could become superstars, but there are big question marks. Just like Doncic.

15.) 03 Aug 2020 16:42:57
Doncic was the nr one pick in most mock drafts. He was killing good players in the Spanish league, when he was only 16. So he was already a hype.

The suns drafted Ayton, because he's from Arizona and they had a bad experience drafting Bender.

The Kings didn't draft him because he told everybody he would stay in Europe, if they did. (And sacramento couldn't flip with Atlanta, because they already have Fox)

And Michael Jordan also was drafted 3rd being the best player in the draft.

16.) 03 Aug 2020 18:21:50
Gasupo, Sac could have traded with Dallas (just like Atlanta did), but they were too afraid that Bagley would not drop to #5. This was the move that I wanted Sacramento to try back in 2018. My "dream" was to walk away with Bagley, Mitchell Robinson (in the second round) and Dallas 2019 first (to replace the first rounder Sac was shipping to Boston via Philly) .

17.) 03 Aug 2020 22:24:37
To bad that didn't happen. Bagley or Jackson Jr would have been on the board. And drafting T young wouln't be the worst thing.



30 Jul 2020 04:47:29
Okay, let's have a talk about Mitchell Robinson. First things first, I have to admit that back in the 2018 Draft I was a little upset that the Knicks drafted him at #36 because I wanted the Kings to draft him at #37 thinking that a Bagley-Robinson addition would have been perfect to go with Fox-Hield-Bogy-Barnes young core. Secondly, I have to admit that I did not watch a bunch of Knicks games this season (watched 1 game against the Kings) .

Someone here wants to make him the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain because of a record-setting FG% (in a shortened season) and a 23+ PER while blocking 2 shots a game. Sounds like he should be a double-double guy, right? well, no, not really.

For starters, Robinson couldn't even beat out Portis or Gibson in the starting lineup (only 7 starts) . Secondly, Robinson's PER is tided to his high FG%. A high shooting percentage only truly matters IF the player shoots the ball a lot.

Unfortunately, Robinson does not primarily because the Knicks offense is not designed for him to get shots. Robinson scores in two different ways. First, is from rim-running off pick-n-rolls.

However, defenses do not let him run free to the hoop because the "poor" shooting by the ball handlers. The second way Robinson scores is from offense rebound put-backs. Robinson averages 3 OReb a game which translate to 2 of his 4 FGs Made are from easy put-backs which is not in the design of the offense.

If Robinson was All-Star material, the offense would be designed to go through him as the Knicks could definitely use a boost in offense production (Knicks 29th in Points Per Game and 26th in Point Differential) . So what is a FAIR comparison for Mitchell Robinson?

Answer: A slightly better Nerlens Noel.


1.) 30 Jul 2020 08:45:02
I think he's a usefull roll player for a team with shooters.
That's why i had the idea to sent him to GS (They don't need another star, but good rollplayers) .

It's difficult to value him now. How does his game evolve?
He propably doesn't develop a 3-pointer
Can he stay out of foul trouble?
can he keep his energetic play after signing a new contract?

He can still develop in a R Gobert or M Harrell or he can become the next N Noel.

2.) 30 Jul 2020 11:08:23
Chamberlain? No but I can see a Gobert ceiling. Maybe he’ll just be around a Capela level.

3.) 30 Jul 2020 14:43:04
His ceiling seems like Deandre Jordan or Ibaka if he can develop a shot.

I don’t see Gobert. There’s a lot more Whiteside than Gobert there. He’s a great shot blocker, but incredibly undisciplined. He doesn’t feel like a guy that is a defense unto himself like Gobert.

He’s got the potential to maybe be a fringe top 10 center. But I’m not sure he can be more than the 4th best player on a contender.

4.) 30 Jul 2020 17:12:41
BMiller, a more BBIQ'd Whiteside would also be a fair comparision. Basically, we are talking about an below-average "starting" center and an above-average "back-up" center.

Maybe Thibs can bring out more of his defensive value, but it seems to me that his development has to be more in between his ears.

5.) 30 Jul 2020 17:28:19
And the jump from good defender to superstar defender is enormous. I’m not even sure you can teach that kind of BBIQ. Guys are just wired that way. They’re smarter than the rest of the players out there.

I recall an interview with Marcus Camby when he was in Portland, and they asked him about rebounding, and he didn’t have a great answer to how he was so good at getting into position (he might be the most skilled rebounder I’ve ever seen) . It was so natural, he couldn’t explain it.

6.) 30 Jul 2020 17:34:41
Deandre Jordan might be the best development story in the NBA that I can remember. He’s genuinely not good at basketball. He doesn’t have a great natural feel for the game. He took the natural physical tools he had (which were substantial) and took as much teaching as he could. And he actually turned that into an all NBA player.

He shouldn’t have been as good as he was.

7.) 30 Jul 2020 19:29:37
BMiller, agree that players who can fully ACCEPT the Rodman role (defense and rebounding) are they ones who become All-NBA primarily because it is such a rarity. Draymond Green is the modern day example (for me), but can see the Deandre Jordan comparison as well.

However, there are two things needed to be All-NBA successful for these guys IMO. First is a motor. In limited viewings of Robinson, I have not seen the Rodman/ Green motor. Secondly, is playing with talented teammates. Teams depending on scoring from Rodman or Green are simply asking too much from them. In order to score, they sacrifice the "energy" needed to have their "motors". Not seeing the "talent" on the Knicks that will allow Robinson to develop this set, specific role.

8.) 30 Jul 2020 21:03:13
Guys Robinson gets limited minutes because he is in foul trouble often. Noel is his current pace. I don’t see Hubert type because he doesn’t focus like a he cares.

9.) 30 Jul 2020 21:52:15
The answer to whether or not he is good or will be good is very simple. Answer: he will be good maybe all star caliber depending on the situation but hear me out.

Currently, he is getting 23 minutes a game on a well below average team yet he is the leading rebounder and shot blocker at age 21. Instead of giving him pt and time to develop, they are giving players with bad potential playing time.

Offensively, I understand his numbers are sub-par but it is easy to see why. The Knicks have a .321 3pt percentage as a team while the league average is .357. Their true shooting percentage is .524 while the league average is .564. It is easy to see that the Knicks are a bad team but did you realize they were this bad? For opposing teams, this makes defending them extremely easy. They defend the paint much harder than they defend the perimeter making it undeniably difficult for robinson to score down low.
My consensus: if the knicks can add shooters and if someone like rj steps up to be a true scoring threat, the Robinson will have a much easier time scoring as long as he is given the minutes he deserves. Obviously, this might not happen but if it does, I see a very bright future for the young Robinson.

10.) 30 Jul 2020 22:22:05
Ethan. The problem is that other GMs do not know if their team's "situation" is right for Robinson either. If a team trades for him, the new team is taking all the risk. Last time I checked "overpaying" and accepting all the "risk" is not a winning strategy. Thus, Robinson's trade value is not that high (late 1st IMO) .



21 Jul 2020 19:58:29
Just curious. Do you see any team taking making a Josh Jackson an "above minimum" offer this upcoming off season?


1.) 21 Jul 2020 20:31:03
Hornets, Magic or even Portland (lacking wing depth) can but not more than 5mil.

2.) 22 Jul 2020 02:21:52
A hyper athletic wing that was picked high and failed his first few stops? Seems like a Portland type player.

3.) 22 Jul 2020 09:55:26
Josh Jackson = Super Mario?

4.) 22 Jul 2020 16:42:39
Or Harkless, Aminu, Thomas Robinson, Vonleh, Lopez. Olshey loves signing or trading second round picks for past lottery picks. It’s his thing.

5.) 23 Jul 2020 19:48:40
The Cavs will probably look for a young wing that they can get cheap.



15 Jul 2020 16:10:43
Kings (and Bogdanovich) agree to S&t to Orlando for anyone of the following:

A. Gordon + Bamba

B. Gordon + pick #17

C. Fournier + Bamba + pick #17.

Kings can toss in a second rounder as well if Orlando is on the fence about making a deal.


1.) 15 Jul 2020 16:58:54
Sorry. Relisting in trade section.



26 Jun 2020 23:43:44
For determining 8th and 9th seed in West. The 2 games between New Orleans and Sacramento will tell alot. If one team sweeps the other, then they are probably making the play-in games.

Not worried about Suns, Spurs and Wizards. To me, Portland is the dark horse depending on Nurkic and Collins minutes without Ariza.


1.) 27 Jun 2020 10:56:41
I agree with the first thing you said but I’d say Portland is not really a dark horse because they have lots of playoff experience and have dame, who is more capable than someone inexperienced like zion, to help the blazers get to the playoffs.

2.) 27 Jun 2020 17:28:37
The reason Portland is my dark horse is because a couple of things make me question their motivation: Dame's comments about a "fair chance" and the fact that Portland voted against this format. Especially against three teams (Memphis New Orleans and Sacramento) that are hungry to make the playoffs.

3.) 28 Jun 2020 20:47:08
Blazers have lots of second round exit experience.




Fredman's rumour replies


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05 Aug 2020 05:37:29
Mbah a Moute is a UFA so can't be traded.




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04 Aug 2020 22:50:25
Boston sends Smart+Kanter+pick#26?

New Orleans send Reddick+pick#16 (assuming New Orleans gets the 8th seed)?




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04 Aug 2020 21:17:11
Now if you change Brook Lopez to Robin Lopez, then you might have something to talk about. But I doubt the salaries work in that case.




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04 Aug 2020 21:15:09
Delidolu, the problem is that most of the teams that can use Turner are in the bottom half of the league and thus only own Lottery Pick first rounders. There are a couple of exceptions

Knicks send Portis (team option picked up) + Pick #27

Lakers send Green + Pick #29

Houston send Gordon + Pick #24 (not 100% positive Houston would do this) .

Take your pick.




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04 Aug 2020 14:03:48
Turner is not getting Indy a young talent AND a lottery pick.





Fredman's talk replies