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08 Jul 2021 21:56:09

If Toronto management is sold on Cunningham becoming a superstar...

Toronto sends Siakam, Flynn, #4 and 2023 1st

Detroit sends Grant, Joseph and #1

Saw Bleacher Report's proposals for all the top 10 teams best offers, but I don't think the Raptors would part with OG. I believe Toronto management sees Siakam as, worst case, salary ballast to trade for a disgruntled superstar. If they believe Cunningham will become that superstar this would make sense for the Raptors.
Not sure if Detroit would see Siakam as that much of an upgrade over Grant, but Casey is familiar with him...


1.) 09 Jul 2021 05:21:17
Pistons say no.

2.) 09 Jul 2021 05:39:56
What do rap fans see in OG that wouldn’t package him for a super star? (Not this trade)

3.) 09 Jul 2021 17:51:54
OG in Toronto = Issac in Orlando.

4.) 09 Jul 2021 18:11:56
@NBA16 - OG is likely going to reach AllNBA defensive team, and, if he continues to develop his handle could become a top 10, maybe top 5 kind of player. He has the demeanour of an assassin that you need to be the best. I think Toronto management sees his upside as being higher than Siakam's, because Pascal is too emotional and let's himself get beat by his own attitude.
Also, Anunoby's salary would still require another contract to match salaries. Siakam's salary can match up with almost any superstar.
And finally. I think OG is a better support piece for that superstar than Siakam would be.

5.) 09 Jul 2021 20:16:46
Neither are going to be superstars.



26 Jun 2021 04:16:08
Decided I'd do a Fredman style offseason plan for the Raptors. I read the prediction The Athletic had and thought these guys aren't near bold enough. I threw out their rule of using the tax line as a hard cap and set out to improve the roster to top 4 in the eastand go ahead and spend into the tax. I believe that the Raptors plan to stay competitive and be ready to strike when the next disgruntled superstar becomes available...
I borrowed structure and some of the numbers from The Athletics' article (credit where due... Lowry, Trent and Birch deals used their numbers)...

Raptors offseason

June 30 - Raptors announce Masai Ujiri has agreed to a 3 year extension making him the highest paid executive in all North American pro sports

July 26 - The Raptors announce they will guarantee Rodney Hood's $10.85 million contract for 2021-22, ; they also announce they will guarantee Aaron Baynes' $7.35 million salary.

July 29 - The Raptors announce they will trade Aaron Baynes, Rodney Hood, the #4 pick in this year's draft, Raptors 1st round pick in 2023 to Indianapolis Pacers for Myles Turner

Aug. 4: Raptors re-sign Kyle Lowry (unrestricted, Bird rights) to a two-year, $45 million deal
As a product of deciding to sign Lowry, the Raptors will now operate as an over-the-cap team.

the Raptors guarantee the contracts of Chris Boucher (decision must be made by Aug. 8), Yuta Watanabe ($375,000 guaranteed now, the rest if he makes the opening night roster, Aug. 9), DeAndre' Bembry (Aug. 6/7), Paul Watson Jr. (Aug. 5/6), and Freddie Gillespie ($50,000 guaranteed now, the rest if he makes the opening night roster, Aug. 20).

Assuming both Watanabe and Gillespie make the team, and assuming Jalen Harris and the second-round pick agree to two-way deals, that gives the Raptors 10 main-roster players and two two-way players at $102,278,712 - more than $34 million under the luxury tax, which I am NOT using as a de facto hard cap. Lowry's first year salary is 21.6M, so the cap sheet is now at $123,908,712

Here's the roster breakdown as of now.

Guard: Fred VanVleet, Kyle Lowry, Malachi Flynn, Jalen Harris (two-way)
Wing: OG Anunoby, Pascal Siakam, Yuta Watanabe, Paul Watson Jr., De'Andre Bembry
Frontcourt: Myles Turner, Chris Boucher, Freddie Gillespie
Additional two-way (one of 2nd round picks, or undrafted find)

Aug. 6: Raptors sign Khem Birch (unrestricted, part of mid-level exception) to two-year, $10 million contract.

Aug 11: Raptors sign Gary Trent Jr. (restricted, Bird rights) to three-year, $45.45 million deal, third-year player option

Now 13 players and salary of 142,708,712. Now a taxpayer, so Birch's salary makes up 4.8M of the 5.8M taxpayer MLE. 14th spot gets filled at the vet minumum.

Starting lineup
Lowry, vanVleet, Anunoby, Siakam, Turner
Flynn, Trent, Bembry, Boucher, Birch

Gillespie, Watanabe, Watson + 1 or 2 vets at minimum


1.) 26 Jun 2021 09:08:53
So you are going to be a tax payer for the next few years while not being a championship caliber team. Maybe 5th seed in the East behind MIL, BRK, ATL, PHIL.

2.) 26 Jun 2021 12:29:14
Yep. once the team is back in Toronto there is a revenue stream to justify paying tax. The goal is to become a team that can become a serious contender with one deal for one superstar. I honestly believe that the lineup I have would compete for a 3 seed in this year's NBA and I'm not convinced Philly won't end up weaker in whatever moves they make this offseason (Darryl Morey is jinxed) . Brooklyn is clearly the class of the East but are vulnerable to injury.
One place where the similarities between Sac and Toronto diverge is market. Toronto has the revenue streams to profit even when paying tax. Sacramento can't profit if they're into the tax.

3.) 26 Jun 2021 14:36:48
I really dislike the idea of trading that number 4 pick we always complain we never have a superstar well this is a legit opportunity to draft one and people just want to trade it for miles turner.

4.) 26 Jun 2021 15:33:25
Too much for Turner imo.

5.) 26 Jun 2021 17:11:43
Way too much writing for Turner.

6.) 26 Jun 2021 18:00:00
@shizzee. way less writing than you might think. most of it is cut and paste from The Athletic lol.

{Ed001's Note - could you please credit them in future if you are going to do that. It is not right to steal someone else's work and pass it off as your own.}



22 Jun 2021 00:25:38
down to the final 4 and now there's 2 teams kicking themselves for not getting the lowry deal done. with the knicks sitting on cap space and masai's willingness to walk if you don't meet the price the raptors may do well on a sign and trade.
below are some ideas of what the raptors should target from each team that might be interested... some of them are the best the team might have to offer but still not enough... some of them might have guys screaming its too much... but i don't think any sign and trade is going to be as a favour to Kyle... he knows its a busines...

Clippers - Beverley and Morris or Kennard (hate it as a raptor fan)
Dallas - KP (hate this even more)
Knicks - would probably just prefer to use cap space...
Nets - Jordan and Harris (but why with Harden and Irving?)
Suns (if Paul declines and leaves) Saric, Bridges (wouldn't do it)
Lakers - Caldwell-Pope, Kuzma
Heat - Dragic, Herro, Precious
Phila - Simmons

to me the Philly deal would be the best if they are really ready to thrown in on simmons... but i think morey has to be asking himself if they would still be playing if he'd made that trade at the deadline... and he's never been afraid to gamble...

what deals would you think more likely? or will toronto just resign him?




18 Jun 2021 22:46:04
Now that Brad Stevens has made his first move he has some cleaning up to do... Boston needs a point guard, and has too many 5s...
Raptors S&T Lowry (2+1, 25M/yr) for Thompson and Smart.
Boston then resigns Fournier to play the 2




16 Mar 2021 15:17:00
How do you get Barnes to Boston? Trade Thompson to open up space under the hard cap...
Toronto hopes to improve their 5 spot and the Knicks collect picks for taking on expiring salary...
Kings get 2 1sts for Barnes....

Boston gets Barnes
Boston sends Thompson to Toronto, 2022 2nd to Knicks, 2022 and 2024 top 10 protected 1sts for Kings

New York gets Baynes, Davis and 2023 2nd from Toronto, 2022 2nd from Boston (Hornets pick)
New York sends Brazdeikis to Toronto

Toronto gets Thompson from Boston and Brazdeikis from New York
Toronto sends Baynes and Davis to New York, 2023 2nd to New York

Sacramento gets 2022 and 2024 top 10 protected 1sts from Boston
Sacramento sends Barnes to Boston

Too much for Barnes? Maybe the Boston 2022 2nd instead of the 2024 1st?


1.) 16 Mar 2021 16:55:03
Why are the Knicks even here?

2.) 16 Mar 2021 17:57:29
Knicks are hear to eat salary because they have cap space.

3.) 16 Mar 2021 18:37:16
not sure how the protection on 2022 works to not violate Stepien's rule for 2024 pick for starters.

Also, Kings would want one of the picks to be the 2021 first. so if Boston wants to go 2021 + top 10 protected 2024 pick, that is fine.

If it makes it easier, Kings will just take Thompson along with the picks to get under the hard cap. But Boston only needs to give up Neismith's salary to get under the Hard Cap which the Kings would really be interested in (and may make the deal more superior than what other teams are offering for Barnes) .

4.) 16 Mar 2021 20:56:17
could Knicks trade 4 of 6 PGs. Rivers Ntilikina Payton Pinson accept Quickley Rose.




wlndrapsfan's talk posts with other poster's replies to wlndrapsfan's talk posts


14 Jul 2021 17:36:49
Your predictions please...

1) opt in
2) opt out and resign
3) opt out and sign with ?
4) opt out for s&t with ?

1) resign with Lakers
2) sign with ? for ?
3) sign and trade with ? for ?

Danny Green
1) resign with 76ers
2) sign with ? for ?

John Collins
1) resign for ?
2) sign with ? for ?
3) Atlanta match offer sheet
4) sign and trade with ? for ?

1) resign with Nets
2) sign and trade with ? for ?
3) sign with ? for ?

1) resign with Bulls
2) sign with ? for ?
3) sign and trade with ? for ?
4) Chicago match offer sheet

1) resign with Miami
2) sign with ? for ?
3) sign and trade with ? for ?

1) resign with Pelicans
2) sign with ? for ?
3) sign and trade with ? for ?
4) Pelicans match offer sheet

Chris Paul
1) opt in
2) opt out and resign with Phoenix
3) opt out and sign with ? for ?

Norm Powell
1) opt in
2) opt out and resign with Portland
3) opt out and sign with ? for ?

Rishaun Holmes
1) resign with Sacramento
2) sign with ? for ?

1) resign with Spurs
2) sign with ? for ?
3) sign and trade with ? for ?

Trent Jr
1) resign with Toronto
2) sign with ? for ?
3) sign and trade with ? for ?
4) Toronto matches offer sheet

1) resign with Toronto
2) sign with ? for ?
3) sign and trade with ? for ?

1) resign with Utah
2) sign with ? for ?
3) sign and trade with ? for ?

Trade Beal or keep

Trade Simmons or keep?

Trade KP or keep?

Trade McCollum? Lillard? keep both?


1.) 14 Jul 2021 21:13:32
Kawhi: Re-sign after opting out
Schroeder: Staying
D. Green: 50/ 50 I guess
Collins: Probably staying
Dinwiddie: Probably staying
Markkanen: Probably staying tbh
Paul: PO accept all the way
Powell: Won't opt in, probably will re-sign
Holmes: Won't resign. Charlotte/ Toronto
DeRozan: I could see him leaving, but not surprised if he stays.
Trent: His cap hold is tiny. I'd not waive his hold but not re-sign him either until we've made other moves.
Lowry: Probably leaving. S&T (Philly? )
Conley: I see him staying for sure.
Washington: I'd trade Beal, they aren't going anywhere rn.
Philly: Let Harris play three. Maxey/ Curry/ Harris/ Simmons/ Embiid be the lineup for now.
Dallas: Not going to get much for KP, I'd keep him
Portland: Ask BMiller :)

2.) 15 Jul 2021 03:59:40
1. Opts in, leaves next summer
2. S&T
3. Resign with 76ers
4. Resign with Hawks
5. Signs with Knicks
6. Signs with Spurs
7. Signs cheap 1+1 TO with Miami
8. Signs with Bulls
9. Opts in
10. Resigns with Blazers
11. Signs with Hornets
12. Signs with Memphis
13. Resigns with Raps
14. Leaves or S&T
15. Resigns with Utah
Keep Beal
Trade Simmons
Trade KP
Trade CJ.

3.) 15 Jul 2021 08:22:06
1) Opt out and resign
2) Sign with other team maybe Detroit
3) Resign
4) resign for a max offer
5) Go's to a LA team or sign for the Knicks
6)I've got a feeling he's going to the Mavs
7)Dip is going to the Knicks or sign a one year offer for Miami
8)L Ball is going to the Bulls
9)CP3 opt's out and resign with phoenix
10)Poweel stays in Portland
11)holmes stays in sacramento
12)Memphis or Dallas
14)I hope Philly or resigns
15)Stay in Utah
16) staying/ Knicks/ Miami/ Atlanta
17)Keep him untill they get a good offer
18) Keep him untill they get a good offer
19) Trade both, they should trade Lilliard to (another) good team and there's no use to keep McCollum when Lilliard is gone.



14 Jul 2021 01:24:46
Does Kawhi's surgery change his approach to his option?
Does he have the faith to decline and try to sign the big deal like KD did?
Or does he take the safe road and opt in?


1.) 14 Jul 2021 04:54:38
Whatever it is, he'll get big money for sure.

2.) 14 Jul 2021 14:51:41
No matter his option he ain’t going to Toronto.

3.) 14 Jul 2021 15:50:49
Ballmer might be the richest owner, just don't see him being an ignorant owner.

I see Kawhi opting in.

4.) 14 Jul 2021 16:04:07
II, we don't even have the cap if we wanted to lol.

5.) 14 Jul 2021 17:42:44
I see Kawhi opting out in order to get more guaranteed years with his new contract. Plus, he is now eligible for the 10-year vet max salary deal which is higher (35% of cap vs 30% of cap) .

6.) 15 Jul 2021 15:58:28
I don’t see him opting out after the acl surgery.

7.) 16 Jul 2021 22:08:28
I disagree Fredman.



23 Jun 2021 01:24:35
I need a starting 5... rim protector and defensive rebounder who can space on offense... salary up to $20M

I've got the #4 pick.
Maybe Lowry for a S&T
Maybe Trent for a S&T

can provide 8 to 18M in salary ballast

Make your offers!


1.) 23 Jun 2021 03:32:07
Turner for Trent maybe

4th and Hood for Wood and House.

2.) 23 Jun 2021 09:12:14
Remember that Lowry and Trent have to want to sign for those teams. It's easy to say you have an S&T, but actually executing it is another thing.

3.) 23 Jun 2021 13:53:13
#4 for Turner + #13 is probably the best scenario that I can see for Toronto.

Unfortunately, Toronto can only have the cap space to accept Turner's salary at the expense of the cap hold on Lowry which means that Toronto has to let him walk with no compensation. Or expand this current trade into a multi-team trade where Indy takes part of the salary coming back from the Lowry S&T.

4.) 23 Jun 2021 14:44:08
@Fredman - would Indy do it if Toronto said keep #13 and take Hood and Baynes instead? . i think that could be done before the draft as long as Toronto accepts the team options on them. then it wouldn't have any impact on the cap for Lowry.

5.) 23 Jun 2021 16:51:37
@windrapsfan. Toronto is probably just better not picking up the options on Hood and Baynes. Yes, you can do what you described (not sure Indy is interested since they are already over the salary cap for next year), but I think having #13 is probably better for the Raptors.

Right now, Toronto has around $71 mil guaranteed in 4 players. If they do not pick up any of their team options and add cap holds for #4 pick + empty roster spots ($14.7), they can get their number down to $85.4-ish which means a salary cap space of around $27 mil.

Maintain cap hold on Lowry ($36 mil) takes all that cap space away (should have traded him at the deadline) . Take away from that $18 mil for Turner's salary and add $3.5 back because of the lower cap hold for #13 pick would put the Raptors at $12.5 mil in cap space remaining. This allows the Raptors to pick up the team option on Boucher and keep the cap hold on Trent in order to resign him for an amount over the salary cap. Once Trent is resigned, you can also resign Watanabe for the minimum as well.

FVV/ Trent/ OG/ Siakam/ Turner Bench Boucher/ Flynn/ #13/ Watanabe/ (maybe Birch resigned at min after all the moves) .

6.) 23 Jun 2021 19:08:01
@windrapsfan. Also, do you really want to trade away the #4 pick prior to knowing if Mobley may actually fall to #4?

7.) 24 Jun 2021 12:49:45
@Fredman - I wondered the same. and I like the idea of Suggs in that lineup too. but Cunningham is a no brainer instant contributor that could change the landscape of the Raptors offseason plan, where the others wouldn't really move the needle right away. Bigs take time to develop. I think Mobley may be an allstar one day, but so will Wiseman, but he wasn't of much use in his first year. I think it might be wise for the Raptors to use that 4 pick to solve a current roster problem.

8.) 24 Jun 2021 14:25:59
I understand. I have always been a person who believes in keeping your options open. I would wait until draft day and see how the top 3 picks pan out. I would draft Mobley if he is there at #4 because he is younger and cheaper than Turner. I also think Mobley is a real good fit alongside Siakam and you have "control" of Mobley for the next 8+ years.

If Mobley is drafted before #4, then you go with option B and trade #4 for Turner + #13. Then you add a Kispert or Bouknight to the bench.

I have been thinking of the same scenario with the #9 pick in getting Turner + #13 as well.

9.) 25 Jun 2021 12:14:39
I would absolutely love Turner here. 4 for Turner+13 would be a nice deal for both sides. Besides, you still have the MLE+BAE to sign other FAs.



01 Jun 2021 02:11:06
Looking for some ideas of what you might think would fit, particularly if you were GM of your favourite team...
A draft night deal (would actually have to be agreed to earlier in order to guarantee Hood's salary) that brings back a starting center that can stretch the floor, protect the rim, and rebound. I'm offering Hood (10.85M) and Baynes (7.35M) as salary filler and this year's pick, likely a 7 or 8. Hood and Baynes are both 1 year expiring deals.
Depending on what you're offering I would consider adding our 23 1st, and for Philly, Denver or Utah might even consider the 25... Siakam, Freddy, OG, Trent and Lowry are untouchable... close to untouchable are Flynn, Boucher..
what's the best trade you can offer to get a 5 to the Raptors...


1.) 01 Jun 2021 04:19:59
Myles Turner is the most realistic option. Salary matching is perfect. Indy can snag a good player to develop with that pick.

Other options are Nurkic from Portland, Bryant from Washington or Valanciunas from Grizz.

2.) 01 Jun 2021 05:13:20
Kinda feel like there is a S&T for Allen from the Cavs out there. Just not sure how to make the numbers work with the cap holds on Lowry and Trent.

3.) 01 Jun 2021 17:43:51
S&T Allen 3 years, 70 million for Baynes (TO) + Hood (TO) + Harris + 2023 1st + 2023 2nd.

4.) 02 Jun 2021 02:07:32
Would need to be 21 first for Cavs.

5.) 02 Jun 2021 12:20:01
Take out the 2nd then and it's a deal.

6.) 02 Jun 2021 12:58:27
Another interesting option would be Christian Wood from Houston. Hood and the 2 firsts just might get it done.

7.) 02 Jun 2021 15:55:56
Thanks guys. some good options there. I really think solving the 5 is the number one priority this off-season; even higher priority than the Lowry decision. If the Raptors can do one of these trades and be happy with the result then they could resign Lowry so he could end his career in Toronto.

8.) 02 Jun 2021 17:19:59
Agree, with you Windrapsfan. The only real concern is the competition for "quality" centers. Sacramento, Charlotte and probably Miami are in the hunt for bigs as well.

Primarily reason why I am opening up to the idea of trading for Hield for Horford + either one of the following: #18, 2022 Phoenix first, or 2022 Clippers first.

9.) 02 Jun 2021 20:39:22
Okc will not trade horford and picks for heild.



11 Apr 2021 02:31:31
How much is Richaun Holmes going to cost next season?
Is there a price that Cleveland won't match for Allen?
Would Memphis trade Jonas?
Or is New Freddie the Raptors future 5?


1.) 11 Apr 2021 12:20:58
My guess is multi-year around $15 mil per year for Holmes. That would put him in Clint Capela salary range.

There are reports that Holmes is very open to resigning with Sacramento because he is tired of hopping from team to team. And with the Kings being short on big men, they are going to give him a pretty good offer.

2.) 11 Apr 2021 13:11:32
1. New Freddie is a forward.
2. Fredman, the Raptors have about 23 million in cap space if they waive Lowry's cap hold, resign Stanley Johnson to the minimum, keep Watanabe's and Trent's cap holds, and exercise team options on Boucher and Bembry. Presumably, we could offer about 17-20 million per year.

3.) 11 Apr 2021 14:21:01
@Darry, what is the cap hold for your lottery pick? $5.3 mil was the cap hold for last years #7 selection. What is the cap hold for vacant roster spots? about another $4.0 mil (seems like 4 spots) .

so take off about $9 mil in your initial estimation of Toronto's cap space at the start of Free Agency.

Are you really going to sign Holmes if you draft Kai Jones in the lottery?

4.) 11 Apr 2021 16:54:53
I counted the rookie's cap hold in the calculation.

5.) 11 Apr 2021 16:55:30
Also, not going to draft Jones at 8. Maybe if we trade down, but I'd rather go for BPA.

6.) 12 Apr 2021 12:25:38
@fredman. aren't the Kings resticted on how much of a raise they can offer Holmes?
I agree with Darry on $23M number if we renounce Lowry, Baines, Hood, Johnson and Ponds. that should leave lots to offer Holmes his $15M and keep Birch as the backup 5, Boucher as backup 4.
Darry I was only kidding about New Freddie getting overexcited about his first game, where he did look promising. I think the Raptors will keep him as the third 5. whether he's got traditional size or not that's where Nick is playing him.
I'm thinking Holmes, Allen or Valanciunas are the most logical sign or trade targets to solve the big problem in the lineup. who am i missing?

7.) 12 Apr 2021 17:32:42
@windrapsfan. Nice Job. I had assumed that the Kings have full Bird rights on Holmes. But upon further research, the Kings only have early Bird rights because Holmes only signed a two-year deal with the Kings. The projected max for next year's early bird exception is $10.3 mil. The Kings could still offer Holmes an extension before the end of the season I believe. Can't seem to find any deadline listed for this kind of extension.

Enes Kanter is in a similar spot with Portland. Drummond since the Lakers will have no rights nor cap space.

Valanciunas is under contract for next year. So is Memphis trading him to Toronto? It is not like Memphis needs to salary dump him.

This is the primary reason I do not see Kai Jones getting past Toronto or Sacramento at pick #7 or pick #8.

8.) 12 Apr 2021 23:17:38
If Cavs beat writers are to be believed, the Cavs are willing to match anything for Allen and he’s currently the Cavs most untouchable player.




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27 Jul 2021 12:43:17
Oh c'mon Fred. they're also giving up perennial allstar Harris, soon to be allstar MCW and future MVP Bamba. and that 33rd pick? It's like gold.




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27 Jul 2021 12:32:38
No thanks from Toronto. not paying 60M over the next 3 years for a backup in Gordon.




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26 Jul 2021 16:03:13
For 2 1sts you should be targetting Denver's Murray, not San Antonio's.




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26 Jul 2021 14:14:33
@Fredman - 2 players being signed can be traded for each other, but you can't sign a player and then package him with another player to match salaries in a trade.
Durant and Russell's salaries were close enough to satisfy CBA rules for the transaction, and a pick was added to sweeten the deal, but there wasn't any other player included to balance the salaries.
I often see reports of S&Ts including extra players, but when you look at the actual transactions that were approved the S&T player is always traded alone in a deal that meets the CBA, and then sweeteners are added in side deal or deals.
If you go back and look at S&T deals as announced on the NBA official site they always show the breakdowns.




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26 Jul 2021 02:59:25
I don't hate it for Toronto, but I don't think you'll get Lowry at that number. And to meet his number you'll likely need to add one more salary piece.





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